Your Culture's Version Of Vacation And Marketing

[nemorathwald]

OK, so Hannukah isn't the Jewish Christmas.

What about calling Christmas the Christian Hannukah?

What about calling them both the white Kwanzah?

What about calling all three of those the non-pagan Yule?

Well of course none of these are the category into which the others fit. None of them are the prototype of which others are derivations. However, all of them are that group's version of the vacation and marketing season. From that point of view, they're all independently versions of each other, with no root taking pride of place. The only thing that keeps them from being interchangable is the insistence of these cultural groups that they didn't suddenly open up their forgotten cultural attics and root through stuff that hardly any of them remembered, looking for an excuse to do what everybody is already doing.

Centuries ago, Christians found a way to fit into the holiday season which was practiced by the Pagans. But then Pagan traditions lost their place of prominence to the point that hardly anybody knew about them anymore. So in the twentieth century, modern Paganism was invented, and they started reviving Yule to fit in with the Christians. Thus it came full circle. Christians co-opted from Pagans, and now Pagans are re-co-opting from Christians. Yule, authentic? It's just re-plagiarism of that which was already plagiarized. I wonder if Yule would even exist today if not as a response to Christmas?

The whole season is claiming an authenticity that nobody merits. Hannukah is just the Jewish version of what everybody else is doing. That doesn't make Christmas somehow more valid. This season, every group does that.

You want to know what's real about this season? This is the season for getting out of the office to spend time with your family, and exchanging gifts driven by the needs of our retail industry. Offices provide magnetic repulsion, and retail marketing provides magnetic attraction. These are the real driving forces. All four of these holidays, Yule, Christmas, Hannukah, and Kwanzaah, are just excuses for cultural groups to feel like they fit into that place in the year. A season of spending money, and getting off work to spend time with family, would have emerged whether or not cultural groups managed to contrive religious excuses for it.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's nice that they dignified the vacation and marketing season. But the distinction between the holidays is simultaneously trivially real, and ignorable to outsiders.

Comments

[rachelann1977.livejournal.com]

I see your point, but there's more history involved in holidays like Hanukkah and Ramadan than just the vacation and marketing season can account for. These two holidays in particular often don't even fall during any vacation time at all. Secondarily, the history of these two holidays is completely separate from the history of either Yule or Christmas. I understand that the Christians stole Yule, and the Pagans stole it back, or whatever, but that WHOLE TIME Hanukkah was just going in in the background, at whatever time it happened to fall, with no one noticing. The same with Ramadan. It only became a big deal in America, when commercialization got out of hand, and I really blame industry for that more than I blame religion, to be honest.

That's not an excuse for children to remain ignorant about the history of the world, and the history of other cultures. Your previous story was a truly funny anecdote, nonetheless, and I apologize for any spoilage of that .

[rachelann1977.livejournal.com]

P.S. Happy Vacation and Marketing Season!

[matt-arnold.livejournal.com]

It is indeed a joyous vacation and marketing season for me, full of nuggets of wisdom and enlightenment. :)

[crywolf.livejournal.com]

This seems like an effort to justify ignorance. Hanukkah is not christmas, yule, or kwanzaa. It is a minor festival celebrating that 1 day's worth of lamp oil lasted 8 days after a battle. That's it, nothing else. If it weren't for its prominence to the month-long commercial holiday of christmas, it would be pretty much unknown. It doesn't even usually overlap christmas day at all.

Yes, it becomes impossible to get stuff done in December due to the aggressive christmas marketing. Yes, visiting is done in December for some people because of this. But that doesn't mean everything in December is christmas. To say that is demeaning to everyone else's belief's and traditions, saying that only christmas matters. There's already a large element of this in American society, which is what makes "the Jewish christmas" not funny, because it's not "out of mouths of children" but instead "oh bother, here we go again."

[matt-arnold.livejournal.com]

It's an effort to justify apathy, not ignorance.

I anticipated you saying this. That's why I repeatedly clarified that Hanukkah is not Christmas. "Hanukkah is Christmas and Christmas is Hanukkah" would be an equivalence of identity. Then you can talk about ignorance and knowledge. "Hanukkah and Christmas are equivalent in value to me" is an equivalence of value. It's based on what I choose to value.

I really don't care who shares those values; I don't ask them to. I cheerfully withhold respect from beliefs and traditions, and then I take great pleasure in watching silly attempts at self-importance.

The only way to make this an effort to justify ignorance is that since it isn't worth caring about, it isn't worth getting in a self-important huff about getting the facts wrong. If I'm ever playing Trivial Pursuit, December Edition, I'll be sure to concentrate really hard.

[crywolf.livejournal.com]

Then I think there's a huge conceptual disconnect here. You're laughing at people who want to not be associated with something they dislike and disagree with. I don't think I'm being self-important, I'm just saying "STOP FUCKING BEATING ME OVER THE HEAD WITH CHRISTMAS!" It's hard enough to avoid christmas without having your own minor festivals co-opted and corrupted. And I'm not even religious. Perhaps if I were, it would be easier to ignore, because I'd never have had to deal with the gift-obligation crap.

You didn't say that christmas is hanukkah as such, but you did say that the differences are ignorable to outsiders, which implies that.

[thefile.livejournal.com]

Not so much a disconnect. He's trolling.

I cheerfully withhold respect from beliefs and traditions, and then I take great pleasure in watching silly attempts at self-importance.

[matt-arnold.livejournal.com]

Actually, this is what it's like when I troll: PCCBoard.COM Message Board - "The Scariest PCCBoard Post Ever..."

[zifferent.livejournal.com]

I actually laughed out loud. Good stuff, good stuff.

My question is, do you go out looking for fights to pick non-logical Christians? Not that I disagree, but isn't that like the proverbial gun and barrel fishing?

Gah, what am I talking about. I take on religious right-wing scum (not all right wing people are scum, just the ones that can't justify their positions without a threat of bodily harm.) in the local news paper's forum. Forget everything I said. Troll on!

[matt-arnold.livejournal.com]

crywolf,
I think I'm starting to understand. Sorry that all the misunderstanding on this topic is making you feel bad.

[crywolf.livejournal.com]

Thank you. I appreciate that. That's really about the extent of the "respect" that I request.

[sinmantyx.livejournal.com]

Hello. I came across your post and I have to mention that THE most authentic "holiday" during the "holiday season" is Solstice. Solstice doesn't depend on some ancient propaganda or consumerist whim or "stealing" this or "stealing" that. It's the longest "night" of the year. That has to do with where the sun and earth are situated and nothing any human being says or does or doesn't do is going to change that.

I don't think there is anything wrong with trying to "multi-culturalize" the winter holiday season. Any culture with a solar based calender is most likely going to have some excuse (whatever it may be) to have a celebration during this time (if for no other reason than to stave off Seasonal Affect Disorder).

I'm a bit weirded out by people mentioning Ramadan in this discussion. Ramadan (which is based on a lunar calender) didn't fall anywhere near the winter solstice this year. Instead, Eid (the second one which is associated with the Hajji, not the first one which is associated with the end of Ramadan) was around the 20th of Dec.

Many of the holidays that fall near the solstice involve presents or at least some sort of celebration. Ramadan is the time when half of our Engineering faculty get cranky and loose weight. About the only close Christian relative as far as HOW it is celebrated would be Lent. I mean, even though it sometimes comes close chronologically, it wouldn't make sense AT ALL to think of Ramadan and Christmas OR Hannukah OR Kwanzah OR Saturnalia for that matter to be reasonably compatible.

Yeah, a lot of holidays can be boiled down to excuses to have a party (whatever time of year they sit at), but Ramadan simply isn't a party. Eid = party.

[matt-arnold.livejournal.com]

Thanks for posting. You may be very interested in this livejournal post. Substitute "Christmas" for "X" and there is an explanation for why traditions, marketing, and vacations are all piled up around the general vicinity of solstice in many cultures.