nemorathwald: (Default)
Well, the conversation with a radio preacher has drawn to a peaceful close. Although my friends list is unlikely to want to read it, I'm including his final letter in an lj-cut below because this Live Journal is my own record of memories. Mr. Thomas has some charitable things to say in parting about his opponent. Then he concludes by relating miracles, never suspecting that Mormons and JWs and Muslims and new age healers and readers of horoscopes and paranoid schizophrenics experience identical events in plentiful supply to validate their claims that oppose his. It's astonishing that the standard of what will pass for a "miracle" these days is so lenient as to be an insult to miracles as described in scriptural narratives. Biblical miracles, had they truly happened, were mostly of a character that would have been impossible to even contemplate as coincidences. You'd think his concept of God would be a big enough God that Mr. Thomas would expect him to do the impossible, at least occasionally. Oh well.

Mr. Thomas' last letter. )

Round Three

Dec. 8th, 2004 05:07 pm
nemorathwald: (Default)
This exchange has brought to mind the saying of Thomas Paine, "Reasoning with one who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead." If through technology we could someday revive the dead to health, what might this suggest about Paine's assertion? I'm not sure where this metaphorical connection is going to lead. But here is the continuation, and probably the finale, of the correspondence with a radio preacher.

Mr. Thomas' third reply. )

My response. )
nemorathwald: (Default)
My letter to the Illinois Leader. )
Scott Thomas' personal reply. )

Mr. Thomas,
thank you for sending a personal reply. I understand your concerns, since I am the son of a pastor. Early in life I became a born-again Christian by choice and conviction, although you know I came to different convictions in my adult life. I acknowledge that you want society to be safe in our decisions and you have admirable good intentions, as I did at that time.
Thank you specifically for asking such important questions in your letter. I'm pleased to report that scientific instrumentation verifies that in an advanced fetus, possessing distinct tissues, organs, limbs and other features that an embryo lacks, the lights are on and somebody's home. Did you not know we have the ability to detect the onset of brain waves and even the ability of third-trimester fetuses to learn? You and I agree that a nine-inch trip down the birth canal is not what bestows personhood. Even though the answer to your question is more of a months-long window than a single universal instant, that window has an obvious beginning and end: how can there be thoughts in an organism without brain cells?
This is why one may as well call a human corpse or human sperm a person, as call a human embryo a person. If we are to take the path you advise, we would have to extend human rights to sperms and eggs. They are not from a different species. They are not dead. That makes them "human life," but life in the biological and not biographical sense. If conception is the onset of personhood, why is it that an embryo will just sit there and become nothing if it doesn't implant in the womb wall? They can be kept in a petri dish for a while, or frozen alive, as can sperm and eggs. The morning-after pill, RU-286, merely prevents implantation of this speck.
Your example of an infant is very helpful to my case. As a father, you would surely agree that your infant can not rightfully claim the full human right of freedom. Human parents grant independence gradually through the teenage years. So you are already used to the idea that human rights come in degrees with age. An organism that has not yet grown its first brain cell is not capable of choosing, feeling, thinking, loving, suffering, and desiring. Only people can do that.
This proves that the excerpt you cite from the bible is legendary embroidery. I can't recall from memory of my bible studies and bible college whether or not John the Baptist was even far enough along in pregnancy to have developed limbs to jump with. I understand, from personal experience, that when one's idiosyncratic and arbitrary choice of which holy book to place one's faith in is called into question, this is an instant thought-stopper for a person of faith. I wonder what you would do if you were confronted with a Muslim, a Jew, or a Hindu who would quote their own holy book back at you as a thought stopper and telling you they would pray for you? It's really enough to make me weep when I think about humans not employing the only interface they have-- reasoning with each other. I'm sorry for my choice of phrase "moral incompetence" which obviously has hurt your feelings. Nevertheless, ethics is a skill of observation and reasoning, like arithmetic. And like a mathematical illiterate who only uses a calculator, you exempt yourself from having to practice moral reasoning by getting it out of a book. I really can't describe it any other way.
-Matt
nemorathwald: (me Matt)
It's heartening to encounter a kindred spirit. If I collected my essays and published them as a book, it would take the same essential positions as this bestselling book that Sam Harris has now published, titled The End of Faith: Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason. You need to read this interview. I'm far from the only person who has come to these realizations, and it's clearly spreading. Click this link to join us tonight at 8pm Eastern for a live chat interview with Sam Harris of which I will be one of the moderators.
nemorathwald: (me Matt)
A meme gakked from almost everybody:

"This is the problem with LJ. We all think we are so close, and we know nothing about each other. I'm going to rectify it. I want you to ask me something you think you should know about me, something that should be obvious, but you have no idea about. Ask away.

Then post this in your LJ and find out what people don't know about you."
nemorathwald: (Default)
Lately I've been taking my discontent with America's religious climate and hitching it to the wagon of the recent election in the hopes of waking up politically-motivated people to become motivated about religion, so that they can work on the disease and not the symptoms. Now, however, there is a backlash, because there are two kinds of Christians.

First there are the majority of Christians, among whom are many of my good and worthy friends, who pray a lot, and claim to follow some vague idea of "Jesus" which they possibly got from a painting of a robed fellow with long hair holding a baby sheep. If a person claims to follow Jesus, and Jesus transforms into whatever their idea of goodness happens to be, is such a person "following" in any meaningful sense? They follow themselves. I'm glad they do so, but if I were to refer to this as Christianity, words would become meaningless noises.

Second are the ones who actually read and follow the Christian scriptures, such as the American Family Association and Bob Jones University and the Concerned Women of America and other politically active Christian Supremacist groups, and the huge grassroots of congregations who they motivate with press releases, sermons, and letters so extreme they actually deserve phrases like "American Mullahs." I know that they are following the actual book, because because I grew up reading, believing and obeying it until several years ago.

I and other informed secularists then apply phrases like "American Mullahs" to those who read, believe and obey the literal bible, including all the cancerous Christian Supremacism found within. Then liberal/nominal Christians, utterly ignorant of what is actually in their own religion's teachings except for a few warm huggy sound bites like: "love thy neighbor," and silly self-contradictory nonsense like: "judge not lest ye be judged," call us intolerant for criticizing faith. What's worst is that even non-religious liberals join them in this. The cultural attitude at the root of so many problems is unchanged as a sacred cow, and from there proceeds business as usual in America.

The reason this happens is that there exists fashionable nonsense among liberals and progressives that there is no such thing as a right or wrong truth claim if somebody slaps the label of faith on it. This is found nowhere in the Christian bible, which only uses the "get away with faith free card" to exempt itself at the expense of everyone else. Then they make the claim that opposition to faith is also faith, because there exists no evidence one way or another for paradoxical mysteries, which is
BULL
SHIT
.

This claim that every stance is a retreat to faith is called irrationalism. At least the postmodernist irrationalists differ from the absolutist irrationalists, in that there is no winner or loser. However, they seem to oppose Christian or Islamic political supremacism not because they present truth claims about religion that are wrong, but because they present any at all. This is self-defeating because everyone will ultimately present truth claims anyway regardless of our pretenses otherwise. For instance, if you claim everything is just faith, than you are giving me a pass to say by faith that you're wrong. You can't do diddly squat about it unless you're willing to say that one faith is better than another and I should stop having mine. Which undercuts your ability to say I can't tell you to stop having yours.

Of course I'm just playing along with the idea that not having faith is the same as having it. Naturally there is a difference. I act like these issues can be resolved not through authority, but through reason based on observation, and irrationalists (religious and non-religious alike) insist they have to be faith-based pre-suppositions immune from challenge. There is something on which I agree with the absolutist bible-believers: that there is truth. We just disagree on whether we can personally know it with absolute certainty. There is something with which post-modern irrationalists agree with the absolutist bible-believers: that we can't know anything without retreating to a pre-supposition. But I say that hope lies only in the discovery that we can.

True tolerance and fairness under the first amendment means a level playing field in which the claims can be judged against each other, without favoritism. This competition is meant to be fair, but like any competition there is a winner and a loser! Claims are accepted and rejected! But inevitably whoever believes that there exists a knowable reality, and takes sides accordingly, is made out to be the bad guy.
nemorathwald: (me Matt)
More and more often I find myself referencing Eric S. Raymond's essay Dancing With The Gods. It's very close to Karen Armstrong's book The Battle For God on my required reading list for the power of the explanatory models of religious experience and institutional development that these writings provide. The essay makes me wonder if god archetypes have ever manifested themselves in me, and if so, which ones. Perhaps if I brought it up somebody would say "oh yeah, we see you acting like so-and-so sometimes." Dancing With The Gods left me with some questions.Read more... )
nemorathwald: (Default)
United Universists has scheduled me to be a guest on The Infidel Guy, an internet call-in show popular with freethinkers, to talk about Universism. Watch this space to find out the day and time..
nemorathwald: (Default)
Agnostics, deists, atheists, pantheists, transcendentalists and other freethinkers are meeting for the next local Universist meetup at Barnes and Noble Booksellers on Washtenaw Ave. in Ann Arbor at 8:00 p.m. Thursday, September 2. Those who are curious are invited to join us. Universism unites freethinkers by replacing the traditional concept of faith with reasoned credibility, inspiration in nature, and hope in progress.
nemorathwald: (Default)
Pardon me while I vent some steam about what I'm feeling right now. Read more... )
nemorathwald: (Default)
This is a review of Why Christianity Must Change or Die by the Episcopalian Bishop of Newark, John Shelby Spong. I suspected Bishop Spong was a theistic agnostic, and this turns out to be true. Spong is theistic because he believes in something labeled 'god,' agnostic because he insists we can't know anything about it.

One of the things I object to in the book is Bishop Spong's continued favorable use of emotion-packed words without their informational content. He says he believes in God, but that God is not supernatural, not male or any gender, not a person in any sense, lacks an independent existence in its own right, not an authority for truth or behavior, and performs no miracles or any other actions except through human good works. In short, he says Love is God. He describes it as the Ground of All Being.

Then he calls himself a Christian while flatly denying the atonement, the virgin birth, the resurrection, and all other miracles. He disagrees with teachings of the Jesus of the gospels on several points, calls the gospels legends, and denies that we have a reliable means of finding out any hard information about the historical Jesus behind them. Yet he says he can follow Jesus because he had a "Christ experience," whatever that is.

Then he says he prays but that prayer is not petition, praise or thanksgiving to any being. Rather he says prayer is doing good works.

He subtitled it, "A Bishop Speaks to Believers in Exile." There's another code word: when he says "believer" he means someone who still likes the beliefs on some basis other than their literal fact.

I strongly object to his his use of language as secret code instead of public participatory activity. Stripping words of their meaning makes them useless as commmunication tools. Putting a whole new meaning into them is confusing at best and misleading at worst. Bishop Spong insists he is not an atheist, for no other reason than the objectionable emotional connotations of the word "atheist." His world view is absent of the supernatural and his ethical statements are consistently humanistic. It is a mystery to me what motivates him to continue to adorn his talk with religious-sounding window dressing.

Because the reader has to struggle in every paragraph to decode this private code Bishop Spong has invented to talk in, his book is nothing more than a handbook for teaching you the code: substitute "love" when he says "god," "Christ experience" when he says "Jesus," and "good works" when he says "prayer." This is not intended to deceive since he is unapologetically open about it, but it still does more to obscure than to enlighten. Rather than breathe new life into Christianity, John Shelby Spong is harvesting organs from what he perceives to be its corpse.
nemorathwald: (me Matt)
iConoclasm

I was looking forward so much to The Fellowship of Reason's 2003 conference on starting local branches, which was cancelled, that I've started discussions on the forums of the secularist groups I'm involved in, asking for volunteer workers to help me step up to the plate and organize this type of conference. It will be a congress of all moral communities that promote reason as primary, and do not require that we pretend to respect blind faith. The way I envision it, F.O.R., Universists, North Texas Church of Freethought, Houston Church of Freethought, Church of Virus, Brights Net, Reason's Fellowship, and the Center for Inquiry's new "Communities" program would be invited as delegations of equals. The purpose will be to network and plan how to promote this type of community. What I'm been saying to them is:
"if one of our organizations grows in our society, we all grow. Our differences are mostly allergic reactions to vocabulary, and are not as important as our common ground. We can make our shared goals work, if we all team together to share our brainstorming ideas!"Read more... )
nemorathwald: (me Matt)
Rachel recently noted that I did not try to disappoint my parents during adolescence so I seem to be trying to make up for lost time. :^D Throughout most of my twenties I was really big on family values, permanent commitment, nesting and trying to have bayyybeeez. Settle down? I was born settled down. I might feel differently after I've tried not being settled down for a while, but in the meantime these things leave me cold. Is it early-onset mid-life crisis brought on by late-onset teenage individuation? How long do I have to atone for my pulpit-thumping past, by thumping back?

Perhaps I need to just not care so much anymore. I recall the recent role model of my friend, [livejournal.com profile] thatguychuck. I and some friends invited him along to see the movie "Saved!" He pleasantly declined, saying that religious issues are completely off of his radar. He said something like "I just go on with living life and don't obsess." This got me thinking. I have another friend named Tomak who always introduces me with, "This is Matt, he's an atheist." Am I an issue cleverly disguised as a human? Why do people get to know me by saying "I really like you even though you don't believe in God and I sense your rage spilling into the street"? Yikes. Chuck's not religious, but nobody says these things about him. Is that perception just them or really me? Just because it's satisfying to care about something important, and even to get a reputation about it, doesn't mean I can't relax. I hope that one passion will not define me. I'm not too worried about it but it's something to keep in mind when I'm filling out a profile about myself on yet another internet service.

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