Discrimination Against Universists

[nemorathwald]

We Universists have been getting a streak of publicity lately. United Universists teamed up with writer-director Brian Flemming to distribute a documentary film, "The God Who Wasn't There." Representatives keep getting radio appearances. One of them even recently sat down with a director of Focus on the Family's institute for taking over the culture, in which the director reportedly was not shy about their goal to someday break down our bedroom doors with jackboots. We've had more news articles than I can keep track of.

When the Birmingham, Alabama contingent was not allowed to meet in a local coffee shop, they boycotted and got a story about it in U.S. News and World Report. What do you think? Should a privately-owned business be able to tell people to go elsewhere on the basis of their religious beliefs?

Rachel once visited a service at a local church in Southfield, Michigan. They were offering for sale at huge prices rags of cloth which had been prayed over for healing purposes. If I ran a coffee shop I'm not sure I'd want it to be the hub of activity for door-to-door evangelists from their church. Well, what's good for the goose is good for the gander, so if the proprietor of Cool Beans in Birmingham thinks we're using her store to send ourselves and others to an eternity of getting their flesh burned off, kicking us out of her store would be the least she should do.

The proper response in the Cool Beans case is not to stage a lunch-counter protest to force the coffee-shop to change, just as I wouldn't want to be forced to change if I were in her shoes.Subtle distinctions need to be drawn about this. I'm not saying we should do nothing. We should excercise the same right in reverse-- stop associating with the business that doesn't want to associate with me and my friends. Privately encourage good people to do the same.

This is a different civil rights battle than that of decades ago. There's no moral dimension to being born black. There is a moral dimension to selling or debunking snake oil. I'm sorry to the very sophisticated progressives on my friends list, but untruth does lead to harm, and for this reason, truth claims do matter. This is like a libel/slander prosecution-- if it's true, it's not slander, and if it isn't true, it is slander, and religious discrimination cases should be handled the same way. The truth in the Cool Beans case is that I do not deserve to go to hell for my unbelief, and the truth in the hypothetical case is that rags do not gain medical efficacy by being prayed over. Statements to the contrary are not OK just because they are based on faith. You can't carry out a prosecution or a defense in a court of law by saying "the evidence is against this but I believe it on faith." You ignore everything but the evidence. But that's all secularism is. That's why a nation with multi-lateral religious equality ironically can't help but be a secularist state.

Comments

[dawnwolf.livejournal.com]

"The truth in the Cool Beans case is that I do not deserve to go to hell for my unbelief, and the truth in the hypothetical case is that rags do not gain medical efficacy by being prayed over."

You have a right to your opinion. I have a right not to have it forced on me; I also choose not to deal with people who feel they are morally-bound to tell me whether or not my privately held religious beliefs are wrong. IMO, you are in some ways as discriminatory as those you rail against.

But I'd still sell you coffee, and welcome your group if any to my shop if I had one. I'd also welcome progressive spiritual groups. I may or may not put up with evangelical-types, depending on their ability to let other people live their lives and stay quiet about it.

[(Anonymous)]

Nobody's proposing forcing anything on you. But I approve of discriminating on the basis of people's choices, including religous choices, when they reflect the content of their character. I made it clear in this journal entry that in this case I side with the preachers, so there's no need to remind me. Would you want meetings of an anti-homosexual hate group gathering in one of the numerous homosexual coffee shops in this area? It's their religious belief, but I bet it would drive away business and defeat the purpose of the establishment as a refuge from them. This is an opinion that has not changed since I was a Christian. You haven't offered me any reason to reconsider it, although I'd be glad to hear one.

[ericthemage.livejournal.com]

What do you think? Should a privately-owned business be able to tell people to go elsewhere on the basis of their religious beliefs?

Absolutely. And let people vote with their feet, taking their money elsewhere. I certainly wouldn't do business with a coffee shop that discriminates like that. If enough people boycotted them, they'd go out of business.